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How do you make a 959 twin equal a 600 four?

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  • How do you make a 959 twin equal a 600 four?

    That may be the question that has to be answered as the FIM and Dorna look at changing WSS rules to allow Ducati's 959 V twin and Triumph's 765 triple to the format. As someone who well remembers championship winning Ducati's 916 and 955 Superbikes, this seems kind of ridiculous to me. But the desire to expand the eligible machine rules is understandable, since nobody but Yamaha seems interested in building a new, cutting edge 600 cc Sport bike anymore. I personally like big twins but I will be interested to see how much they have to strangle them- and the 765 Triumph- to make it "fair", whatever that is.

    "Fair" is a hard thing to define, for openers. Is "fair" slowing down the bike that wins the most, even though it may be that the rider and team with that bike happen to be the best? It would be much easier to not be skeptical of the rules they will lay down for different manufacturers if we did not have the history of Ducati being allowed to run 1000 twins against 750 fours, with predictable results, for over 15 years. That only ended when Honda said, fine, we will just kick your ass with a V twin of our own- funny how the rules changed after they won a couple championships with the RC51.

    Oh well, at least it will be more interesting than watching Yamaha 600's fill the grid and win all the races.

    G
    Last edited by gregness; 11-16-2020, 07:35 PM.
    "The Price of Speed is Eternal Vigilance" 2015 ZX14R 30th, Four Kids

  • #2
    ^ The Fogarty/Corser/Edwards era comparison doesn't even work because it's worse now. The 916 street bike produced maybe 110hp stock, and fast 600s at the time were pretty close to that.

    Today, the 955 V2 motor is a beast that makes 155hp stock, but 600s actually make less today than they did in 2002. New 600s barely crack 150mph now, while the V2 does 180. It is ridiculous.
    ​​​​

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    • #3
      Yeah
      sigpic

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      • #4
        As a drag racer (I don’t race bikes )I see the same thing with the harleys being able to run a much larger engine where they advanced is so great it’s actually a advantage I believe Harley is allowed 162 ci and if you run inline 4 its 92ci

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        • #5
          I am tempted to get a V2 for my next track bike. It’s size, hp, and torque reminds me of the downsized 2008 CBR1000rr but with lower end torque lots of electronic aides.
          My ol' ZZR1200 pics:
          http://zzrbikes.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=156883

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          • #6
            Originally posted by spedxprt View Post
            I am tempted to get a V2 for my next track bike. It’s size, hp, and torque reminds me of the downsized 2008 CBR1000rr but with lower end torque lots of electronic aides.
            My RC51 was a fun track bike but so gutless (130 HP) that I did not miss traction control!
            "The Price of Speed is Eternal Vigilance" 2015 ZX14R 30th, Four Kids

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            • #7
              Really?

              I thought the RC 51's made more HP than that.

              Regardless, still a great bike
              I have neither the time,or the inclination, to explain myself to a man, who rises and sleep under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner, in which I provide it. I'd rather you just say 'thank you' and go on your way.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BIG O View Post
                Really?

                I thought the RC 51's made more HP than that.

                Regardless, still a great bike
                Yeah, the race bikes they won with were REALLY leaned on, and a very short engine life as a result. Honda guys said adding 1000 RPM to redline cut engine life by 50%. That's why almost no privateers raced them, to expensive to make them fast and then keep them running. But stock they were reliable but not blazing fast.
                "The Price of Speed is Eternal Vigilance" 2015 ZX14R 30th, Four Kids

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                • #9
                  Found this at our track day today!
                  You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                  This gallery has 1 photos.
                  My ol' ZZR1200 pics:
                  http://zzrbikes.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=156883

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                  • #10
                    Well, mystery solved. 600 I4s are basically dead, and 2022 WSSP will be Triumph triple vs Ducati twin, plus leftover 600s grandfathered in under previous homologation rules. They're testing the formula in British Supersport next year to figure out how to regulate it for WSSP.

                    Kawasaki's 636 is dead for 2021, so that's it for the class. Too bad they evolved out of being nice all-rounders back in the early 2000s

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by YYCZED View Post
                      Well, mystery solved. 600 I4s are basically dead, and 2022 WSSP will be Triumph triple vs Ducati twin, plus leftover 600s grandfathered in under previous homologation rules. They're testing the formula in British Supersport next year to figure out how to regulate it for WSSP.

                      Kawasaki's 636 is dead for 2021, so that's it for the class. Too bad they evolved out of being nice all-rounders back in the early 2000s
                      Kind of sad, but nothing lasts forever I guess. The 600 Sportbike wave of the 80's was something- the 600 Ninja blew peoples minds, then the 600 Honda Hurricane was faster than some 750's, and so on. It seemed like a class that would be around forever... but 35 years is a pretty good run in the transitory world of motorsport.
                      "The Price of Speed is Eternal Vigilance" 2015 ZX14R 30th, Four Kids

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