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  • #16
    Shit’s getting real in Canada too. Schools, universities and daycares are closed. Many businesses are setting up employees to work remotely. Ski hills, recreation centers, bars, restaurants, churches and other places of social gathering are closed. Downtown looks like a ghost town. They aren’t saying officially but it’s being rumoured that there are currently 40-50% of the population out of work. There is no way in the world governments are going to be able to pay unemployment and offer financial bail outs to all the people and all the businesses this is going to effect. The financial aftermath looks like it will be far worse and longer lasting than the health implications. Not sure where or when it will end.
    Last edited by NotDeadYet; 03-19-2020, 07:18 PM.


    "I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it!"

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    • #17
      I see that college kids are still partying hard in large numbers, at the normal spring break locations. Hope they don't visit grampa and grandma very soon...
      "The Price of Speed is Eternal Vigilance" 2015 ZX14R 30th, Four Kids

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      • #18
        Looks like I'm going to start volunteering to work OT on the weekends.

        They've closed down all of the bars and restaurants, nothing left to do on my days off

        I have neither the time,or the inclination, to explain myself to a man, who rises and sleep under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner, in which I provide it. I'd rather you just say 'thank you' and go on your way.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by NotDeadYet View Post
          Shit’s getting real in Canada too. Schools, universities and daycares are closed. Many businesses are setting up employees to work remotely. Ski hills, recreation centers, churches and other places of social gathering are closing. Downtown looks like a ghost town. Not sure where or when it will end.
          Can't you just put people out in the cold to kill the virus?

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          • #20
            It's all hype and bullshit at this point. I've had it. I'm an 'at risk' individual due to age, asthma, and lung damage. It knocked me on my butt cause I was tired all the time, and when it got into my lungs I had to do a 5 day course of antibiotics and pregnazone. Left me with a nagging cough that's slowly going away.
            I'd say that probably ten percent of the country has it at this point, but because the CDC royally screwed the pooch, there's no testing for it, so no one knows.
            If you're young and you're healthy, this thing won't do anything to you at all.
            If you're older, yeah, you start to be in the area where it can make you sick.
            But mostly this is just the states making a power grab by trampling all over our rights and idiots in the government panicking because none of them know a damn thing about sickness and disease.
            I expect the unrest to start in about a week.
            Mostly Stock '03
            Support a starving author!
            www.vanstry.net

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            • #21
              We had an excellent journey along the Norwegian coast, sometimes referred to as the "most beautiful journey in the world".
              On board the ship there was no problem with any virus stuff.
              It travelled from Bergen to Kirkenes and return.
              When we got back to Bergen, it was mentioned that the next journey had restrictions - not every port would allow disembarkation.
              Bergen before the journey: interesting, crowded, lots to do.
              Bergen after the journey, 12 days later: city in lockdown, bars and restaurants closing, extra distance rules for public transport.
              We flew out of there with KLM to Amsterdam airport (packed with people), and they closed Norway behind us.

              Holland was ok to start with, but then the hype and fear set in, by day 3 bars and restaurants were closed. We stayed in a hotel one of the nights, and were the only guests.

              Back at Amsterdam airport yesterday to fly out, and there were fewer people.
              The flight to Dubai was half full.
              However, the flight from Dubai to Perth was packed with Aussies wanting to get home, before more borders close.
              Dubai was packed on the way to Norway, a lot fewer people last night.
              Half the passengers wore face masks.

              At Perth airport, panicked "officials" all wearing face masks handing out paperwork to do with "self-isolation", and forms to fill out to state that we understand the isolation rules.

              Fun times - not. Lots of people out of work, businesses going under, panic buying. Criminal gangs buying up big, to hoard everything and sell at some later time at a huge profit.

              Gangs of city people driving to small Western Australian country towns and buying everything.

              I note that Western Australia has around 52 cases. I note also that around 2 million WA people have no virus.

              Anyway, we're back. We have a headcold, due to Arctic weather in Norway, cool weather in Holland, and sniffly people on aircraft. We have 2 weeks mandatory "stay at home". Fortunately the offsprings filled the house with food, and the fridge with beer (and none of the Corona beers).

              Worst of all, I can't go out and ride my bikes!

              I suffer from kleptomania. When it gets bad, I take something for it.

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              • #22
                I have neither the time,or the inclination, to explain myself to a man, who rises and sleep under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner, in which I provide it. I'd rather you just say 'thank you' and go on your way.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Quarantine playlist.
                  1. Don't Stand So Close to Me; The Police.
                  2. All by myself by Eric Carmen
                  3. Germs, Weird Al
                  4. Happy to be stuck with you, Huey Lewis
                  5. Knock 3 Times, Tony Orlando
                  6. Out of Touch, Hall and Oats
                  7. Here I go again, Whitesnake
                  8. Too much time on my hands, Styx
                  9. Keep Your Hands to Yourself, Georgia Satellites
                  How To Cheat on Personality Tests
                  1. When asked for word associations or comments about the world, give the most conventional, run-of-the-mill, pedestrian answer possible.

                  2. To settle on the most beneficial answer to any question, repeat to yourself:
                  (a) I loved my father and my mother, but my father a little bit more.
                  (b) I like things pretty well the way they are.
                  (c) I never worry much about anything.
                  (d) I don't care for books or music much.
                  (e) I love my wife and children.
                  (f) I don't let them get in the way of company work.
                  From <cite>The Organization Man</cite> by William Hollingsworth Whyte, 1956

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Banner View Post
                    It's all hype and bullshit at this point. I've had it. I'm an 'at risk' individual due to age, asthma, and lung damage. It knocked me on my butt cause I was tired all the time, and when it got into my lungs I had to do a 5 day course of antibiotics and pregnazone. Left me with a nagging cough that's slowly going away.
                    I'd say that probably ten percent of the country has it at this point, but because the CDC royally screwed the pooch, there's no testing for it, so no one knows.
                    If you're young and you're healthy, this thing won't do anything to you at all.
                    If you're older, yeah, you start to be in the area where it can make you sick.
                    But mostly this is just the states making a power grab by trampling all over our rights and idiots in the government panicking because none of them know a damn thing about sickness and disease.
                    I expect the unrest to start in about a week.
                    THIS JUST IN!

                    An actual site member that has had the virus!

                    Had the associated complications that one might expect from an "at risk" individual!

                    Received treatment!

                    and LIVED!


                    When interviewed, the "man on the street" had this to say," If you're young and you're healthy, this thing won't do anything to you at all. If you're older, yeah, you start to be in the area where it can make you sick."





                    This reporter says, "NOT BULLSHIT!




                    I have neither the time,or the inclination, to explain myself to a man, who rises and sleep under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner, in which I provide it. I'd rather you just say 'thank you' and go on your way.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Here is an excellent article regarding California's government rights applied to individuals during this current C 19 outbreak. This was posted by a friend on another motorcycle site.

                      Very informative. I recommend reading.



                      "A well written explanation of the legality of the present situation.. It is long but VERY informative My thanks to Attorney Mark Meuser who asks that this be shared to help clarification of what we Californians are experiencing..

                      Home>Articles>Does Gov. Newsom Have The Power To Shut Down Private Businesses Because Of Coronavirus?

                      Attorney Mark Meuser. (Photo: Twitter)
                      Does Gov. Newsom Have the Power to Shut Down Private Businesses Because of Coronavirus?
                      Do counties really have the authority to order everyone to stay at home? Are Shelter in Place Laws Valid?

                      By Katy Grimes, March 19, 2020 3:26 pm

                      Can a health officer issue a quarantine of everyone in the county?


                      California Constitutional-Election Law Attorney Attorney Mark Meuser has been questioned so much about the Coronavirus shelter in place orders, and social distancing, he prepared a video and comprehensive explanation of the executive Orders issued by Gov. Gavin Newsom, and California counties public health officials’ orders.

                      Mark Meuser:

                      I have been asked by numerous people to help them understand what is going on in the state of California regarding the shutting down of businesses and shelter in place laws. Does the governor really have the power to shut down private businesses? Do counties really have the authority to order everyone to stay at home? This video is my attempt to provide some basic understanding about the difference between martial law and the governor declaring a state of emergency. In this video, we will look at California statutes, the Governors Executive Orders, and the subsequent county health orders of shelter in place. Hopefully as we go through all these documents, you will gain a better understanding of what exactly is going on in this state.

                      Because of all the misinformation and a lack of information regarding what is going on, if you find this video helpful, can I ask you to share this video on your social media. Tell your friends and family to watch this video so that they can be better educated on what exactly is going on legally that led to all these shelter in place laws.

                      Please remember that things are changing by the minute and as such, it may not necessarily reflect the most current legal developments. As such, all the information presented here is for general information purposes only and is not intended to be legal advice. You should seek the advice of legal counsel of your choice before acting upon any of the information contained in this video.

                      First off, let’s start off with the term Martial Law. What is Martial Law, and when can the governor declare Martial Law?

                      California Military and Veterans Code Section 143 is the statute that gives the Governor authority to proclaim Martial Law. This statute reads:

                      Whenever the Governor is satisfied that rebellion, insurrection, tumult or riot exists in any part of the state … the Governor may, by proclamation, declare … to be in a state of insurrection, and he or she may thereupon order into the service of the state any number and description of the active militia, or unorganized militia, as he or she deems necessary, to serve for a term and under the command of any officer as he or she directs.

                      As you can see, we are not currently in a state of rebellion, insurrection, tumult or riots and as such, the Governor of the State does not have the power to declare martial law. However, that being said, the Governor does have broad powers under the California Emergency Services Act. The California Emergency Services Act can be found starting in California Government Code section 8550.

                      There are three main types of emergencies that enable a governor to declare a state of emergency.

                      State of War emergency.
                      State of Emergency
                      Local Emergency
                      I think we all agree that we do not currently have a state of war emergency since neither California or the United State are not under an attack or threat of attack by an enemy of the United States.

                      As such, that leads us to state of emergency or local emergency. A local emergency deals with disasters that are contained within the limits of a county. Since the Corona virus effects the entire state of California, we are currently dealing with the second option, a State of Emergency.

                      Under California Government code section 8558, a governor can call a state of emergency when there is an “existence of conditions of disaster or of extreme peril to the safety of persons and property within the state caused by conditions such as air pollution, fire, flood, storm, epidemic, riot, drought, cyberterrorism, sudden and severe energy shortage, plant or animal infestation or disease, …earthquake, or other conditions, other than conditions resulting from a labor controversy or conditions causing a state of war emergency ….”

                      California Government Code section 8567 states that all orders under the California Emergency Services Act must be in writing and they take effect immediately. When the governor calls a state of emergency, he may suspend any state statute, rule or regulation. (Cal. Gov. § 8571). Please notice that the governor does not have the authority to suspend the California Constitution. As such, any rights contained in the Constitution are still in force. In fact, to make sure the government understands that there are limits to their authority, Cal. Gov. § 8571.5 expressly states that nothing in the California Emergency Services Act gives the government the right to seize or confiscate any firearm or ammunition unless an officer is arresting someone pursuant to an investigation for the commission of a crime.

                      When a governor calls a state of emergency, this gives him the authority to commandeer or utilize any private property or personnel deemed by him necessary in carrying out the responsibilities. However, the state is liable for the reasonable value of what it uses. (Gov. Code § 8572).

                      Gov. Newsom’s Executive Orders
                      Now that we have discussed the law, let’s now talk about what the Governor of California has actually done.

                      On March 4, 2020, Governor Newsom Declared a State of Emergency.

                      On March 11, 2020, Governor Newsom’s office published the fact that it was California Department of Public Health’s policy of preventing gatherings of groups larger than 250 people “should be postponed.” This was not an executive order by the governor, instead it was a California Department of Public Health policy. This policy does not cite a single law that gives the California Department of Public Health authority to shut down events of 250 people or require social distancing of more than 6 feet. While these may be good guidelines to follow, they are simply policies, they are not the law.

                      To emphasize that this was just a policy and not a law, on March 12, 2020, Newsom issues his next executive order (N-25-20). This executive order states that “All residents are to heed any orders and guidance of state and local public health officials, including but not limited to the imposition of social distancing measures, to control the spread of COVID-19.”

                      Notice the language of this order. “All residents are to heed any orders and guidance …”. If you look up the word heed in the dictionary, you will discover that it means “to give consideration attention to.” It does not say you must obey. Gavin Newsom in his executive order utilizing his powers granted him after declaring a state of emergency told the citizens of California that Californians should takes the advice given by the California Department of Public Health into consideration when making decisions.

                      Thus, contrary what you may have been led to believe, Gov. Newsom did not actually issue an executive order requiring Californians to practice social distancing, nor did he actually order gatherings of over 250 people to shut down. All he did was order people to pay attention to what these organizations were saying. These were merely recommendations.

                      Understand, a policy is different from a regulation. While I was able to find authority that allowed the California Department of Health Services to issue emergency regulations after they jumped through a few hoops, I have been unable to find where their policies would have the full force of law. Laws are passed by the legislature, or under the state of emergency, via executive order by the governor.

                      Before I move on to what the counties have done with their shelter in place laws, I want to quickly let you know that Gov. Newsom has issued five other executive orders in the last several days regarding the Corona virus.

                      Newsom has signed an executive order on March 13 ensuring funding for schools even if the schools are closed. He has issued an executive order on March 16th on how the state must focus on protecting the health and safety of the most vulnerable. And on March 16th, his executive order dealt with suspending the laws allowing landlords and banks from removing individuals who have not been able to pay their bills until May 31st. On the 17th he signed an executive order to ensure that key commodities can be delivered to California retailers. Finally, on the 18th he issued an executive order to protect ongoing safety net services for the most vulnerable Californians.

                      Shelter in Place Laws
                      So now let’s move to the issue of shelter in place laws being issued by the counties. I have not looked at every county’s shelter in place law, but I have looked at several and they are very similar.

                      California law allows counties to declare a health emergency when the local health officer determines that there is a threat of the introduction of any contagious, infectious, or communicable disease. (California Health and Safety Code § 101080). It appears that this power was not given to the California Department of Health Services but instead, this power was left in the hands of local Health Officers.

                      Cal. Health & Safety § 101040 permits local health officers to take any preventive measures that may be necessary to protect and preserve the public health from any state of emergency declared by the governor. After a local health emergency has been declared, “The sheriff of each county .. may enforce within the county … all orders of the local health officer issued for the purpose of preventing the spread of any contagious, infectious, or communicable disease.” (Cal. Health and Safety Code 101029). Cal. Health & Safety § 101030 specifically gives the county health officer the authority to order quarantines.

                      However, the question arises, does a county health officer have the authority to order a quarantine of healthy people, or just those who are sick? What laws are in place in the state of California regarding the stopping of disease through quarantine?

                      The statutes are very broad in their wording. Cal. Health & Safety § 120175 says that the health officers “shall take measures as may be necessary to prevent the spread of the disease or occurrence of additional cases. Cal. Health & Safety § 120200 indicates that a health officer shall establish and maintain places of quarantine. But this still does not answer the question, can a health officer issue a quarantine of everyone in the county?

                      In 1921, Laura Culver petitioned the courts to be released from a quarantine. The Court’s held that the law permitted public health officials to quarantine individuals who have come in contact with cases and carriers of contagious diseases.

                      As one studies California law, it is clear that the law used to be very explicit that a quarantine was only applicable to those who had a contagious disease or those who had come in contact with someone who had a contagious disease.

                      While most of the laws regarding quarantine are very broad, Cal. Health & Safety § 120215 appears to have limiting language. This statute reads: Upon receiving information of the existence of contagious, infectious, or communicable disease for which the department may from time to time declare the need for strict isolation or quarantine, each health officer shall: (a) Ensure the adequate isolation of each case, and appropriate quarantine of the contacts and premises. (b) Follow the local rules and regulations, and all general and special rules, regulations, and orders of the department, in carrying out the quarantine or isolation.

                      Let’s look at this for a minute. I think we can all agree that the health officers have sufficient information that there is a communicable disease. However, where we disagree is that the Health Officers are ordering a county wide shelter in place law where the law only allows “adequate isolation of each case, and appropriate quarantine of the contacts.” This is where the local health official appears to have overstepped their authority. The counties are not looking at this on a case by case bases. Instead, they are issuing broad orders that affect both the healthy and the sick. They are not ordering a quarantine of those who have been in contact with someone who has the virus.

                      Cal. Health & Safety § 120225 also has some instructive language. This statute says that “A person subject to quarantine …”. The quarantine laws where designed to quarantine an individual or a location, not an entire community or organization.

                      Finally, Cal. Health & Safety § 120235 makes clear that the quarantine powers of the local health officer were never intended to be a community lock down. Cal. Health & Safety § 120235 clearly states that “no quarantine shall be raised until every exposed room, together with all personal property in the room, has been adequately treated, or, if necessary, destroyed, under the direction of the health officer, and until all persons having been under strict isolation are considered noninfectious.”

                      The quarantine laws are clearly intended to be applied to individuals not to the entire county. The quarantine laws are designed to stop those who might have been infected from passing the disease onto others. Absent the local health officers finding that an individual has the disease or is likely to have the disease, California law does not give them broad authority to quarantine the entire county.

                      As such, it appears counties such as San Francisco that have issued broad shelter in place laws may be violating California law.
                      If you feel like the state of emergency called by the governor or these shelter in place laws have adversely effected your business and/or violated your constitutional rights, I would encourage you to seek competent legal counsel to examine your individual case.

                      In conclusion, we are living in very interesting times. There are those who feel like government officials are in a contest to see who can be the most aggressive in upending the lives of its citizens over the Corona virus. The great debate of today seems to be, is the government doing too much or is the government not doing enough. Regardless of the answer to that question, there are going to be some serious financial ramifications as a result of this virus.

                      Regardless of whether the government has over reacted or under reacted, the threat of this virus will end. When it does, our generation will have the opportunity to show how we are able to bounce back, just like we did after the Great Depression or 9/11."

                      AuthorRecent Posts

                      Katy Grimes
                      I have neither the time,or the inclination, to explain myself to a man, who rises and sleep under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner, in which I provide it. I'd rather you just say 'thank you' and go on your way.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        We may well be headed for a global Great Depression. I note that the 'bounce back' from the last Great Depression took 25 years.

                        Our world has changed. Be grateful that you have it better than most people and that you will come through far better than many millions of others. And try to be good to the least of your brothers.
                        Last edited by reidmct; 03-21-2020, 02:53 PM.
                        How To Cheat on Personality Tests
                        1. When asked for word associations or comments about the world, give the most conventional, run-of-the-mill, pedestrian answer possible.

                        2. To settle on the most beneficial answer to any question, repeat to yourself:
                        (a) I loved my father and my mother, but my father a little bit more.
                        (b) I like things pretty well the way they are.
                        (c) I never worry much about anything.
                        (d) I don't care for books or music much.
                        (e) I love my wife and children.
                        (f) I don't let them get in the way of company work.
                        From <cite>The Organization Man</cite> by William Hollingsworth Whyte, 1956

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by reidmct View Post
                          We may well be headed for a global Great Depression. I note that the 'bounce back' from the last Great Depression took 25 years.

                          Our world has changed. Be grateful that you have it better than most people and that you will come through far better than many millions of others. So try to be good to the least of your brothers.
                          Amen brother!



                          "I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it!"

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by reidmct View Post
                            Quarantine playlist.
                            1. Don't Stand So Close to Me; The Police.
                            2. All by myself by Eric Carmen
                            3. Germs, Weird Al
                            4. Happy to be stuck with you, Huey Lewis
                            5. Knock 3 Times, Tony Orlando
                            6. Out of Touch, Hall and Oats
                            7. Here I go again, Whitesnake
                            8. Too much time on my hands, Styx
                            9. Keep Your Hands to Yourself, Georgia Satellites
                            I Don't need No Doctor - Humble Pie

                            Somebody Get Me A Doctor - Van Halen





                            While I am master of my sword, I shall never think any man greater than myself.
                            ~Eumenes of Cardia

                            I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth. ~Steve McQueen

                            I work over by worlds of fun. ~JimmyMac

                            My photo album - http://zzrbikes.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=146333

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by BIG O View Post
                              What he said.
                              Sin's a good mans brother.

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                              • #30
                                I hope you are all doing well. Banner Very glad you got through it. Not everyone will. Maybe we'll understand why it hits some harder than others, someday. I think it's the initial viral load. If you pick up a big dose of infection and it takes your body 5 days to notice it and start responding, you're much worse off than if you only got a small initial load that replicated over those same 5 days. There will be a bunch of Spring Breakers in trouble in the coming days, I fear. Or, maybe not. I'm certainly no Dr. Just a guess.

                                The thought of dying on a table in a hallway for lack of a vent is horrifying. Hopefully all the companies ramping to make vents will fill the need in time.

                                https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/25/te...or-production/
                                https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/tech/...rus/index.html

                                I've spent my time in isolation working my overseas connections to source PPE. Had some small success. Delivering some masks (KN95 and regular hospital patient masks) to a few hospices, an ambulance corp and a surgery center. It would be easy to make bank, since there is no inventory in distribution. We're selling them at a few percent over cost. We're trying to drop ship from a partner warehouse in CN, but, even express service is filled to over capacity. What was a 5-day delivery 2 weeks ago is now closer to 15 days. We're trying to find some cargo space to move all inventory stateside so we can get it to where it needs to go faster.

                                Think about it.... Home healthcare workers treating patients who have the virus, but they have no PPE. Why? Because there is none to be bought. Everything is being allocated to hospitals. Health companies who only ever bought small quantities of masks now need them for every employee. Distributors are only selling to them based on previous purchase quantity, if they even have any at all to sell. Had one company tell me their distributor said if they had any the price would be $9/each. Read a story this week about an auction in TX that was shut down by the TX AG when the price reached $5.

                                My purchase cost is running in the 2.50 range (changes daily). have to pay the warehouse to manage it, repack and ship to the end customer. Cash for everything, including freight. Then I need to hold my breath until it reaches customers, the delivery lanes are so slow. I'm selling for around $3.00 after all that. Is the AG coming for me? Who gets to define gouging? These masks were selling in Lowes a month ago at 20 for $25 off brand and 2x that for 3M.

                                We've had offers from several places approaching $10 million dollars, if we can find supply. Over 3 million N95-equivalent requested. Customers willing to front the cash, that's how desperate the need. Spoke with the feds to make sure I'm not doing anything counter to their efforts.

                                Been crazy nuts the past 2 weeks... just trying to get stuff to put in the hands of people risking their lives in the field. Praying for them. Trying not to go nuts along the way.

                                Did our first-ever pick-up order from Kroger. Was supposed to be ready at 5pm Friday. Hoping we can get it today.

                                Wash your hands.





                                “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”...Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

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