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  • ZZR1200 Desperately seeking....HELP........

    Hi all,

    yet another newbie here.....to the site anyways......

    Ok, Short and brief.... I'm 45, been riding since 15, now drive trains in London. Started on Yamaha DT-50, then Suzuki RG125...done test, Moved to RGV250. at 18 started training as Instructor in Hayes, 19 had passed IAM and ROSPA, at 20 passed Cardington Accessed CBT1c and DAS Certified... Worked for various companies, Moved to YZF600r, YZF 750, and ThunderAce.... ( yamaha Theme..hey? )

    Nowdays, Settled, Bedfordhsire, ZZR1200, 20k 2003 AND ........OMG Do I need help.....Lovely Bike

    Decided that Id upgrade Brakes on front, mean why not?? right?...... Put EBC Vee Discs on front,Hel. Lines ( 2 line config ) new pads and rebuilt MC... Simples.....????Nope

    3 Litres Of Dot4 later, and I CAN NOT get a firm brake....WTF.....I have tried everything, Vacuum Bleed, Pressure Bleed, Gravity Bleed, Tied Brake Lever back, when i do get pressure on lever, take it out and no real stopping power at all.... if i brake to hard, handle bars judder REAL bad ... WTF is going On???? Anyone m Anyone id Beds who wants to earn some extra cash, PLEASE, let me know, as I don't know what to do....

    Have tried most things, my neighbour is an lathe engineer, so will give him discs to check if warped....failing that, I'm at a loss and could do with some advice or happy for someone to come and do it....££....she ran sweet before I tampered.......

    any takers?

    kind regards guys...

  • #2
    Have you tried bleeding at the master cylinder as well as at the caliper?

    Are the new discs the same thickness as the old discs?

    I know when I replaced my lines that it took quite a bit more fluid to get the brakes to bleed all the way.

    Otherwise, I'm at a loss
    I have neither the time,or the inclination, to explain myself to a man, who rises and sleep under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner, in which I provide it. I'd rather you just say 'thank you' and go on your way.

    Comment


    • #3
      Also, you are bleeding both calipers, correct?
      I have neither the time,or the inclination, to explain myself to a man, who rises and sleep under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner, in which I provide it. I'd rather you just say 'thank you' and go on your way.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes... so more info, i changed brake lines, to HEL. 2 line set up straight to calipers. no Joint... took front wheel off, replaced discs ( i cleaned till shining ) mounting hub, mounted 2 NEW vee discs as seen in pics., changed pads too HH sintered.....Put back together... Bleed MC as per instruction manual....gravity bleed both lines... till fluid coming out both nipples with NO bubbles... then pumped and bled each calliper individually... til all fluid was solid both sides with no bubbles...Probably spent 2 hrs... to get to this point... which I thought was a lot....... anyway....pressure at lever, so happy...... Took her out for a spin, applied front brake, all i felt was a serious judder where by handle bars would wobble from side to side.......quickly..... presumed that callipers not cantered... brought her back, undone caliper bolts a little applied brake and re-torque them...... tied lever to handle bar over night.... checked in a.m, brake lever solid... took her out again, and same....judder judder judder...... no real breaking power..if I applied brake to hard, just judder and vibrate.........rebled brakes again...... no air, 1 litre onwards, cracked banjo at MC incase air trapped, re bled... still same..... Gone through 3 bottles now...Love the bike...Regret ever messing with brakes.........why o why did I bother.... trying to contact mobile Mechanic to come and help as really shouldnt be riding as it is....

        Comment


        • #5
          Might try taking some Scotch Brite to the discs and pads.

          Maybe got some contaminant on them??

          Otherwise, sounds like you are doing everything correctly.

          To clarify, you now have good lever pull just shuddering under stopping?
          I have neither the time,or the inclination, to explain myself to a man, who rises and sleep under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner, in which I provide it. I'd rather you just say 'thank you' and go on your way.

          Comment


          • #6
            That's one thing I haven't tried, so will try that today and let you know.... Thank you.

            Comment


            • #7
              GibSlash, also some of us here had to put the shim/spacers under the front disk (like was on the later Zeds) to keep the front
              from shaking. I'll try to get the part # if I can, it was not in the earlier parts drawings. I think I found it shown on an 05 model on
              a parts dealers site. These shims were cheap too, about 15 bucks US. I have aftermarket disk on mine and when I put these on,
              smooth and positive. Kept my ass from eating my shorts on high speed stuff and braking like it's suppose to.
              By the way, I went thru a bunch of fluid on mine when changing out the front lines, I didn't think it was ever going to bleed out.
              https://www.kawasakionlineparts.com....ont-brake#next
              Try this link. Part# 11091754
              Last edited by CHARLIE; 09-18-2021, 06:27 AM.
              "If it ain't broke, don't fix it...
              but sometimes it just needs a mod"

              Comment


              • #8
                Double post, I gave you an answer in your other post with the same title. Bad Habit. I'm a Master Machinist, and Tool and Dye maker. I also do CAD, never heard of a "Lath Engineer", Lathe Operator, sure, anyways. Problematic Brakes are best bled from the bottom up.

                Answer went in your other post was this:


                Today, 07:07 AM




                "I had a friend with a Ducati that could not get the new brake calipers he purchased to bleed. What I did was inject brake fluid directly into the calipers with one of those plastic medical syringes. We connected the master cylinder and filled it, connected it to the calipers, we got the pucks to come out (not all the way!!). They were so far back in there, they were causing the air to be trapped, and the fluid was essentially blocked by the air bubble. I think you should try this method, gets those pucks s little out first, you can easily push them back in. I have used this method on cars (I used to flip Mercedes Benz's), as it is a common problem. I have never bent rotors putting on or taking off a tire, please tell me they are not that flimsy, I don't buy that. I just had my front tire on and off a few times, I can't see that happening. I have dial gauges that read in 10ths of a thousandths of an inch. Never had that problem on any bike I've ever owned or worked on. IMHO"




                Last edited by Kawasakian; 09-18-2021, 07:14 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I was having the same thought as Charlie. Alignment of the disc/rotor with caliper might be off. Seems like it could cause all your symptoms. If the rotor does not settle in a neutral position between the pads it would force fluid back up to master causing the lever to have to take up the slack on the next application of the brakes. And if the rotor is being pushed sideways when the brakes are applied it would have to deflect on the buttons constantly, possible causing the shudder.

                  I would probably put the original rotors back on and see if the problem goes away.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Correct. Plus, why would Kawasaki have these spacers on the 05 and not the 02?
                    Seemed logical to me, in my case, it worked.
                    "If it ain't broke, don't fix it...
                    but sometimes it just needs a mod"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      X2 on the previous 2 posts, if that caliper isn't centered, it's best to center the caliper. On my Suzuki the caliper floats on two pins. If the lube drives up, the brakes get really crappy, and people blame it on the "anti-dive" unit. Just cleaning and lubing the holes on the forks gives you a stop on the dime brakes. Bikes with fixed calipers, like most are, must have that caliper aligned properly. I don't like messing with the rotor myself. It seems that the factory has already figured out that relationship. IMHO

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Check the runout on the rotors.
                        Our ability to distribute interesting information is out pacing our ability to create it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Possibility:


                          Do you have this spacer installed?

                          https://zzrbikes.com/filedata/fetch?photoid=1193289


                          This is from another thread:

                          https://zzrbikes.com/forum/bikes/zzr...nt-brake/page2

                          post 22.


                          Perth, Western Australia.
                          “Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.” - Oscar Wilde

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Guys, Thank you all so much for the advice and help... I gave the discs to my neighbour, his results were interesting, he said to me that the discs weren't true to the hub. when place on the lathe, he said between 6 thousandths and 8 thousandths of an inch, which is .15/.2 of a mm... therefore when placed on the hub and bolted to it they would basically osculate...... I don't understand entirely what this means but can understand if braking then the disc would be pushing back onto the brake pads during rotation.... I have sent email to EBC telling them the same to see what they say....

                            Thanks for all the posts, I'm yet to find these spacers in any stockist in UK, i see them on the workshop manual, mine is a 2003 C2H model, and according to that manual, I don't need them, but would like to try as a few have commented on how this worked for them.....

                            I had centred callipers correctly.. by loosening caliper bolts , applying front brake to centre them, holding brake on and retightening calliper bolts to torque setting......

                            I have brought a new set of pads, incase old were in fact contaminated...am going to refit everything again tomorrow and see if its still the same with new pads....if so i guess discs are at fault..

                            Anyone recommend good discs for the ZZR1200???

                            thanks guys again
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by GibSlash; 09-20-2021, 02:26 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Those discs float on those pins, a lot when hot, that's the purpose of that style disc. . I am a machinist, of well over 20 years. I still have a machine shop. Did he make sure that discs were pushed back on the pins, did he check the mount for the discs? Lots of questions of how this was checked. Looking at the set up, the 3 jaw face is being used as the reference plane for the disc mount, that surface must be exact, and checked, and is normally not used for that, the inside of the jaws are, as are the outsides, but not the face. You don't check truing that way, you make a mount Green center to mount up on the lathe, and then drill said mount and mount the disc Hub (the Green Part) bolted to it, then check the Green part for run out. The only way to actually check the disc itself is to make sure it is propped up against the 6 mounting pins, which of course defeats the purpose of having a floating disc, I don't really think you can check it that way, what are you actually checking?

                              Putting it on that chuck and measuring run out told you nothing. Not any information I would act on. I bet the floating pins take up that much slack easily, that's only plus or minus .003" or .004" of an inch, that's nothing. This test would only work for a one piece disc brake rotor, mounted to the car, or motorcycle in question. That's bad ad inspection process. Why didn't you mount the indicator to the fork leg to check for out of round, or check it's plane? The actual disc would have to be removed from the Green mount to check it's plane and if true, and a Granite table is the best way to do that.

                              The way to check discs is on the bike, or car, you invite accrued intolerance the way you did it. IMHO

                              Comment

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