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  • #16
    Forget the dyno numbers just for a minute. Take it for a ride and as others have noted - you should notice a 40 horsepower drop in the seat of your pants. I think you might be comparing apples and oranges with the different dyno's.


    "I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it!"

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    • #17
      I reached out to Dynojet UK after not being able to resolve the small matter of a 35% power loss. In turn, they discussed it with Vanguard, the franchised DJ specialist. After that, the bike was re-jetted using 155 jets from the DJ kit and run again. A small improvement but still down by 25rwhp. However, DJ suggested the bike with my mods was running to lean and that the issue was fueling, but also to double-check the timing. The timing was spot on. The bike is now back with my mechanic. After taking on-board the comments from DJ he pulled the tank off to change the jets from 155's to 160's. While he was doing that he noticed that the fuel hose from the tank to the tap was badly twisted and buckled. The bike had a new fuel tap some time back and the hose was not an OEM replacement, but a piece of hose cut to length. This is being replaced with an OEM hose for £5 and once it's all fitted I'll update you further. The hope is that the hose and larger jets will return the bike to a more "normal" level of performance.

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      • #18
        Thanks for the update. Difficult to believe that no one checked the fuel hoses, but not really surprised. Surely the AFR would have way out if the problem was fuel starvation?

        Hopefully the fuel hose was the problem.

        Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk

        "You don't get slower with age, you just get more cautious." Michael Rutter

        06 Ocean Blue ZZR1200, the coolest colour.
        99 Yamaha R1

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        • #19
          I was an avid pilot for a while. A 40 HP loss is something that you would notice immediately, and turn around, land, or if on a motorcycle, go back home, and check for something obvious. You haven't answered the "Why did you not feel it?" queries, that seems to be a reasonable. The people I know who dyno their bikes do so after they have it running fantastic, then dyno it to do a final dial in. Dyno's don't work well for diagnosing. Always start with a clean sheet, look at each system of the bike. You should have found the crimped, twisted line. Your bike has fuel pumps, did you check the pressure they are putting out at?

          My neighbor and friend had a hydrocarbon backfire on his 1200 Harley. He let his bike sit for a year because of an insistence that it needed to go on a dyno. I took some starting fluid, with a tiny red hose, and sprayed the intake, one carb for two heads. The bike immediately revved up. The bike had been ridden hard that day, and the O-ring blew on one carb. This is common on Harley Evolution engines, they even make a bracket to tie the two head s together. My point is that usually it's something simple, that can have big failures. He went out for a ride that day when after we went to the local Harley dealer and picked up two O-rings. He never did take his bike to get dyno'd.

          I put a set of Fiamm Horns on my GS750ES Suzuki, and just cut the wires for the stock horns. About a year later, the bike would just completely cut out, blowing the main fuse. Replace the fuse, it started right back up. It turned out that I did not secure the live stock wires well, and one would drop down, touch the exhaust, and kill the bike. It took me a long time to find that, and that was only when the wire came all the way down and stuck to the hot exhaust. Not any bright sleuthing on my part. Just a lazy wiring job, and a lucky break when the wire stuck to the exhaust. I did go through every system on that bike after that. I changed the fuel line, as upon inspection, it had evidence of dry rotting, not all the way through, but just a matter of time. If you aren't capable of doing repairs, I would advise getting a mechanic that fixes bike s without having to use a dyno. None of the three shop I managed ever had the bikes dyno'd. That was something that a few people did after we fixed their bikes, and they raced regularly. Never in 5 years did we have any customer come back and complain about a dyno issue. Why didn't the mechanic go through the fuel system, as a system, each and every system. Methinks you should shop for a new mechanic, unless he doesn't charge you for not fixing your bike. :)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Davecrfisher View Post
            I reached out to Dynojet UK ............... etc ...... hope is that the hose and larger jets will return the bike to a more "normal" level of performance.
            Lets hope for a good outcome. It seems to me that you generally know what you're doing. We all sometimes overlook the obvious, and at our age don't need reprimanding.
            I had my patience tested. I'm negative.

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            • #21
              Oh, I'm so sorry if I came off like an a$$hole. I always hope the best for all fellow bikers. You are most definitely right. I would edit my post to read nicer, but then I would be hiding my crotchety post. I do apologize. I really don't like when mechanics, who are getting paid and choose and profess this profession, do not follow standard procedure, and bleed people for their money, whether they have a lot of it or not.

              10 years at Sikorsky Aircraft demanded a perfection and adherence to established working protocol, and at the same time, "thinking out of the box", sometimes it's I forget that the kind of discipline I had to adhere to in the aerospace industry (I worked most my life in the aerospace Industry), is not common, though I do see it among my fellow bikers more than the general public. Thanks for the heads up. I appreciate it. :)

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              • #22
                Originally posted by NotDeadYet View Post
                Forget the dyno numbers just for a minute. Take it for a ride and as others have noted - you should notice a 40 horsepower drop in the seat of your pants. I think you might be comparing apples and oranges with the different dyno's.
                The reason I haven't made a comment about taking it for a ride is that I haven't had the bike back since it went in for the latest mods. It's been there all Summer, so no chance to ride it.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Moise View Post
                  Thanks for the update. Difficult to believe that no one checked the fuel hoses, but not really surprised. Surely the AFR would have way out if the problem was fuel starvation?

                  Hopefully the fuel hose was the problem.

                  Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk
                  I couldn't agree more.....check the bleedin' obvious first!!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Kawasakian View Post
                    I was an avid pilot for a while. A 40 HP loss is something that you would notice immediately, and turn around, land, or if on a motorcycle, go back home, and check for something obvious. You haven't answered the "Why did you not feel it?" queries, that seems to be a reasonable. The people I know who dyno their bikes do so after they have it running fantastic, then dyno it to do a final dial in. Dyno's don't work well for diagnosing. Always start with a clean sheet, look at each system of the bike. You should have found the crimped, twisted line. Your bike has fuel pumps, did you check the pressure they are putting out at?

                    My neighbor and friend had a hydrocarbon backfire on his 1200 Harley. He let his bike sit for a year because of an insistence that it needed to go on a dyno. I took some starting fluid, with a tiny red hose, and sprayed the intake, one carb for two heads. The bike immediately revved up. The bike had been ridden hard that day, and the O-ring blew on one carb. This is common on Harley Evolution engines, they even make a bracket to tie the two head s together. My point is that usually it's something simple, that can have big failures. He went out for a ride that day when after we went to the local Harley dealer and picked up two O-rings. He never did take his bike to get dyno'd.

                    I put a set of Fiamm Horns on my GS750ES Suzuki, and just cut the wires for the stock horns. About a year later, the bike would just completely cut out, blowing the main fuse. Replace the fuse, it started right back up. It turned out that I did not secure the live stock wires well, and one would drop down, touch the exhaust, and kill the bike. It took me a long time to find that, and that was only when the wire came all the way down and stuck to the hot exhaust. Not any bright sleuthing on my part. Just a lazy wiring job, and a lucky break when the wire stuck to the exhaust. I did go through every system on that bike after that. I changed the fuel line, as upon inspection, it had evidence of dry rotting, not all the way through, but just a matter of time. If you aren't capable of doing repairs, I would advise getting a mechanic that fixes bike s without having to use a dyno. None of the three shop I managed ever had the bikes dyno'd. That was something that a few people did after we fixed their bikes, and they raced regularly. Never in 5 years did we have any customer come back and complain about a dyno issue. Why didn't the mechanic go through the fuel system, as a system, each and every system. Methinks you should shop for a new mechanic, unless he doesn't charge you for not fixing your bike. :)
                    My mechanic did the work and fitted the kit. Then I had it taken for the dyno run at another place, a Dynojet specialist to fine tune the bike. My mistake was not having it Dyno'd before the work and then after. That's how I came to know there was an issue. You don't just lose 40hp. Then the fun began. I'm hoping that with fitting the correct hose and using the 160 jets we should get back to at least the 150rwhp mark, maybe even a bit more.....

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                    • #25
                      I've had 3 oral surgeries in the last month and a half. My bike is on the back burner. I just finished the exhaust mufflers I made/modified for it, but it was 20 degrees yesterday, and I had oral surgery yesterday, my face is swollen and , well, rather than rambling on, things just pop up and get in the way. Thank God I have my '83 GS750ES to ride. Your bike sounds like it's pretty sweet, and well looked after. You should have it all sorted out soon. I got my ZZR1200 some 4 months or so ago, and it has only 4395 miles on it. I've done many upgrades, so when I do finally ride it, the bike will have the stance, the Nuclear Reactor weight penalty removed,, I figured I've taken 40 lbs. off of the bike, then can start racking up the miles. I'm sorry for the rude post, it wasn't what I was thinking, or represented the sentiment I had, but sure reads bad. :)

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Kawasakian View Post
                        I've had 3 oral surgeries in the last month and a half. My bike is on the back burner. I just finished the exhaust mufflers I made/modified for it, but it was 20 degrees yesterday, and I had oral surgery yesterday, my face is swollen and , well, rather than rambling on, things just pop up and get in the way. Thank God I have my '83 GS750ES to ride. Your bike sounds like it's pretty sweet, and well looked after. You should have it all sorted out soon. I got my ZZR1200 some 4 months or so ago, and it has only 4395 miles on it. I've done many upgrades, so when I do finally ride it, the bike will have the stance, the Nuclear Reactor weight penalty removed,, I figured I've taken 40 lbs. off of the bike, then can start racking up the miles. I'm sorry for the rude post, it wasn't what I was thinking, or represented the sentiment I had, but sure reads bad. :)
                        Absolutely forget about it. No offense was taken. My 11 D1 has 8k miles on it and is very well looked after. The weight of these bikes is an issue, but sounds like you've done a great job losing plenty on your 12. One inexpensive mod that loses a couple of KG's is a 520 chain and sprocket conversion. All the best....

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